Third Time's the Charm
We've all been through this debate before, so I'll sum it up quickly. Despite improvements to non-humans, humans remain the optimal race choice from a purely mathematical standpoint in most cases. The ideal situation would be that humans are, at best, on par with non-humans in this department, if not ever so slightly less powerful due to their lack of a costuming requirement.
Unlike the last two times we did this, however, Nick and I are in agreement that we won't be buffing non-humans any further. This time, we'll be nerfing humans to settle the debate. I'm sure nobody wants to hear that, particularly those playing humans, but we feel that they are broken and need to be taken down a notch as an issue of game balance.
That being said, whether or not it's happening isn't what I'd like to discuss. I'd like to open the debate for ideas on how they should be nerfed in a meaningful way. Please keep in mind, we're not trying to gimp them into oblivion; we're trying to make them about as good as non-humans. The result could be painful for some, but it shouldn't make them worthless.
One idea I'd like to propose is that we rebuild humans with the same number of skill affinities as other classes. They get moderate affinities for the gold-only trade skills (i.e., Brewing, Farming, etc.) and retain their affinities for every class in exchange for no racial actions. They would likely lose a few key affinities such as Brawn, Fortitude, and/or Spell Blast to reflect the ability of other races to excel in these departments.
Other ideas? Again, we're not looking for a debate about whether or not to nerf humans. We're looking for constructive feedback on how to go about doing it.
(As a side note, when this happens, those playing humans will be given the opportunity for race changes and/or partial skill respends, so don't be concerned if any proposed adjustments might dip your skill point total in the negative.)
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As it turns out, one of the unsung advantages of having all of our character information in a database is that, in cases such as this, I can come up with useful queries to pull aggregate data. In this case, I went into the database and pulled out the collective number of ranks all active human PCs possess in each skill. Here are the results.
Revising my proposal from earlier, then, I'd like to let humans retain weak affinity for all of the skills I've bolded above, including Armed Combat, Armored Combat, First Aid, Fortitude, Specialty Action, Spell Blast, Weapon Specialization, and all trade skills. All other skills (Brawn, Class Secrets, Identification, Two-Weapon Combat, etc.) would fall by the wayside. The average effect would be a loss of about 4 skill points per human, with some characters being affected to a greater or lesser degree.
Thoughts?
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
- Wizard of Oz
The ideal LARP dish is an entree of combat, seasoned to taste with story, with a side of roleplaying, a mixed PvP drink (if that's your thing), a tall glass of immersion to wash it all down, and a moderate portion of treasure for dessert. Who's hungry?
The only thing I want to know is.
"WILL THEY TASTE THE SAME??"
;) LOL
What would Scooby Doo?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
That which does kill me makes me stronger still.
Obviously it is not up for discussion. The way this sounds you are forcing people to play a certain way. This will single handedly destroy my character. Where you are going to fix one thing you are going to break another. Not cool. Don't "force" me to do anything. If there is any discussion you can call me at 434-548-8004.
Commenting on his horns "It sure is hard getting used to a new rack." -Kevass the Outcast
I'm sorry you feel that way, Jeff. Nick and I reached this decision, as we always do, by carefully considering the ramifications to players, yourself included. The truth is that humans are overpowered, which naturally means that certain human PCs are overpowered as well. Yours is not the only character who will suffer a drop in power because of this.
If you'd like, you're welcome to suggest other ways to nerf humans and we'll gladly consider them. Likewise, when the change occurs, you will be given options to respend your character so that he is suitable for the concept you have in mind. This decision is meant to better balance humans, not to pidgeonhole your play style.
I invite you to return to the debate constructively. Your opinion has weight with us, but continuing to allow a clearly unbalanced character option in play is not a solution we're willing to consider.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
- Wizard of Oz
The ideal LARP dish is an entree of combat, seasoned to taste with story, with a side of roleplaying, a mixed PvP drink (if that's your thing), a tall glass of immersion to wash it all down, and a moderate portion of treasure for dessert. Who's hungry?
To continue the discussion, it occurs to me that there are only two things that humans get: Universal skill affinities and universal class affinities.
What if we decided to remove all human class affinities instead? This would set all humans back one action compared to non-humans with race-appropriate classes. It's significant, particularly at low levels, and does the job without "destroying" anybody's character.
What do you guys think of this proposal instead? Some constructive feedback would be much appreciated.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
- Wizard of Oz
The ideal LARP dish is an entree of combat, seasoned to taste with story, with a side of roleplaying, a mixed PvP drink (if that's your thing), a tall glass of immersion to wash it all down, and a moderate portion of treasure for dessert. Who's hungry?
I think the humans should be left alone while maybe increasing the race classes by maybe giving more actions like instead of 3 limit, maybe a few actions are available to have four or five. i think people will not be happy by making their character weaker.
I'm all for making people happy, but if we follow this line of reasoning, we'd never revise any character option to be less powerful, however broken it turns out to be.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
- Wizard of Oz
The ideal LARP dish is an entree of combat, seasoned to taste with story, with a side of roleplaying, a mixed PvP drink (if that's your thing), a tall glass of immersion to wash it all down, and a moderate portion of treasure for dessert. Who's hungry?
I could tolerate class affinities as a solution (still don't like it), but would like to see some solid ground to stand on. Sorry for harshness earlier, but my character is a fairly accurate extension of me.
Commenting on his horns "It sure is hard getting used to a new rack." -Kevass the Outcast
Welcome back, Jeff. No worries about earlier. To be honest, Nick and I would be lying to ourselves if we expected a positive reaction to this.
Here is my basis for the decision. Most of the time, when you respend a non-human character as human (or vice versa), you'll see a fairly significant skill point disparity. This is to be expected; after all, skill points are the human's bread and butter. Only characters who stick to their race's affinities like glue will come out ahead. The problem we're hearing about it is that the disparity is too large, and racial actions don't make up for it. More importantly, you eventually run out of useful racial actions, whereas the human's skill point advantage becomes increasingly useful over time.
This last point is where removing class affinities comes in. Because a character's actions become more powerful over time, an extra action does as well. This helps offset the human's advantage. Let's say respending as human at 4th level would net you 5 more skill points. It's a no-brainer if you don't like the racial actions, but now you have to weigh 5 skill points against an extra action. The choice is much harder. Let's say you have the same choice at 10th with a disparity of 9 skill points. That's a lot, but your extra action could be a Slay, or an Evade, or a Vanish, etc.
So far, the people I've spoken to seem to feel just like you do, Jeff; they don't especially like humans losing class affinities, but they find it tolerable. I'm thinking this might end up being the solution we go with, possibly coupled with a round of minor non-human revisions. I'll give it another day or two before we decide just in case someone has another idea to propose.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
- Wizard of Oz
The ideal LARP dish is an entree of combat, seasoned to taste with story, with a side of roleplaying, a mixed PvP drink (if that's your thing), a tall glass of immersion to wash it all down, and a moderate portion of treasure for dessert. Who's hungry?
It also makes sense that culturally other races have a few classes they are known for and have become especially honed, whereas Humans are known for their versatility and their ability to learn anything.
The deed is done. Humans no longer have affinities for any class. Hopefully this helps settle the debate.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
- Wizard of Oz
The ideal LARP dish is an entree of combat, seasoned to taste with story, with a side of roleplaying, a mixed PvP drink (if that's your thing), a tall glass of immersion to wash it all down, and a moderate portion of treasure for dessert. Who's hungry?