Trade Skill Yield Formula Revised

Thad

Administrator

Veteran (28 Events)

"Life is an adventure. Never stop questing."

Submitted by Thad on Tue, 2010-10-26 23:14

In response to feedback from the recent game as well as observations over the past year, I've updated the trade skill yield formula. The new daily yield for any trade skill is equal to (0.015 * Rank^2) + (0.05 * Rank) + 0.5. This revised formula results in a healthy increase at lower ranks, evens out with the previous formula at rank 7, and gradually reduces yield increases after that. Lower ranks are more rewarding than they used to be, and higher ranks are more reasonable, rather than following the sharp curve we had previously.

Astrum

Adventurer (11 Events)

You can run, but you'll only die tired.

Submitted by Astrum on Sat, 2012-03-03 12:51

This is just a personal observation, and you may intend for the game to be this way. If so, disregard this completely.

Let me start by saying; I like that the yield per level is more balanced now. However, (and I know you've heard this before) I feel that trade skills are a bit underpowered right now. It took the highest level players about a year and a half and tons of resources to make one sword that has a non-permanent prime enchantment on it.

I understand the value of making a player work for their items. If you count it in events it makes sense. What would it come out to? No more than 15 days to make a decent sword. However, taken into account that we must wait a month between games, it's a bit lengthy.

Take Drux for example. I know I probably have numbers wrong here but I am pressed for time as I write this. He has to create three or so ironweave cloths at the start, before any real item may be made. After that significant period of time, he has to weave them into a cloak. This whole process takes an absurd amount of time for a simple 12 armour bonus. I can't be sure on the time frame but I would say over a month of nothing but tailoring downtime.

The lack or resources is understandable as this is to be a shattered world with a shattered economy. That makes sense, so we must make our own items. But the time required to make something, say a gem, even eligible to be used is extreme. Not to mention the money lost from buying the raw version, along with the money lost when converting gemcrafting production into gems instead of gold. After all of that, you still have a useless item. You must wait for other people to create their version of a prepared item then pay an outrageous price because of the immense amount of time it took them to make. Now you're way in the hole, and you have several prepared items. Next you have to find someone, if not yourself to perform the ritual. Another cut into your gold pouch, albeit it is often a small one. Finally, after months and months of work, and hundreds of gold, you have a sword with an average enchantment of a once or twice per day effect.

Don't get me wrong. I like the strained feeling and the accomplishment of gaining something in an unforgiving world, but I feel that this is a bit too difficult. I think that downtime should provide more production than it does currently. Especially at the rate we are expending items. I would wager that last event, over a thousand gold was tossed away, in vain it seems. In return we got to draw stones and recieve silver nuggets.

I understand that the bag is supposed to have more bad then good, but if it's unprofitable altogether then we might as well stop adventuring, as far as role-playing goes. Either downtime has to balance out with the loss of items we experience in the mods, or the treasure bag has to yield more. Otherwise, it is a ridiculous aspect to adventure and our characters would probably rather hide in a hole somewhere.

Again, this is just an idea, and I may be missing some key point that makes this all make sense. As a player, I find it frustrating that a large portion of my rituals are out of the question completely and another large portion are inhibited by lack of resources. As a character, I'm finding more and more reason to dig in the dirt in hopes of hitting oil than to go treasure-hunting or work at my craft. I have kind of held on to this throughout the season to give the new system a chance to balance out, but it does not appear to be doing that. The tradeskills are still based around the treasure system in which the average game yielded 15 gold max. Now that the treasure has updated, I feel the downtime activities should too. Thanks for reading!

Garith Grey

Spanner (17 Events)

"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends..." -Gandalf

Submitted by Garith Grey on Sat, 2012-03-03 12:51

I do agree with Astrum on most of his points. A thought that I had that would fix that problem is to remove the lvl restriction on trade skills. Then it would be completely up to the players on how much they make with downtime because it would all ride on how they spend their skill points.

Thad

Administrator

Veteran (28 Events)

"Life is an adventure. Never stop questing."

Submitted by Thad on Sat, 2012-03-03 12:51

Thank you for your thoughts, guys. Here are some responses from the game developer's perspective.

I'll start by saying that removing the level limit cap on trade skills is absolutely, 100% out. Scott has already tried to make this argument to me on a number of very well-thought-out points. I nixed the idea because it would promote the creation of ridiculously unbalanced characters whose only objective is to create wealth and because a very low-level character with an incredibly high rank in a trade skill challenges suspension of disbelief (e.g., the most skilled blacksmith in the world is only 4th level). The bottom line is this: If you want to be the most badass tradesman around, you'll have to gain levels first.

Another important point to consider here is that trade skills are, and were always intended to be, supplemental. Your main source of income is from adventuring. After all, we want to reward people for actually attending and playing the game, so playing must necessarily be more lucrative.

Now, it's a fair observation that adventuring is often boom or bust. Some adventures, you may draw a single tag that makes the whole ordeal worthwhile. Others, you may burn through a mountain of consumables and get a silver nugget for your trouble. In the long run, however, your character is accruing wealth. I actually have the ability to verify this. Matt, comparing the total wealth of your treasure from before the game to after, you netted an 86.1 gold piece profit. This doesn't include treasure you may have shared with Rob or Josh. Between the three of you, you netted nearly a 500 gold piece profit, or about 166 per character. The game was a net profit for the three of you any way you slice it. And while the sum may not be significant compared to the most expensive treasure, consider what it will look like as that trend continues over the next year or two. Consider how much more treasure you have now than at the start of the season, or even just a few games ago.

Trade skills are nice. You have the ability to make nearly anything in the game with them, an ability that is only limited by your skill rank and the time you can spend doing it. Taking months to make a decent item with them is intentional, due mostly to the fact that the LARP is designed to last for many years on end. If it only took Drux a week to make an ironweave cloak, the game would quickly become flooded with them. If treasure is to be special in any way, as you said, it has to be hard to obtain, and a fantasy economy is a fragile thing prone to swift death by inflation.

Another important factor to consider from my perspective is whether or not players are using a particular character option. The logic is simple: If a player chooses an option, they must believe it to be worthwhile. If many players choose it, then, it must be a good option, perhaps even too good. If few choose it, it probably needs revisiting. Basically, it's the wisdom of crowds. I looked into the stats for the last game and found that 18 (82%) of the 22 PCs who played had a trade skill. 11 (50%) of them had their trade skill maxed out or within one rank of their level. I don't really think there can be any argument that trade skills are widely popular just as they are. And while the argument has been made that there's nothing else to do in downtime, I have no doubt that, even as I add options like exploration or experimentation to downtime, trade skills will still be very popular.

Unfortunately, all factors considered, I can't justify increasing the yield of trade skill more than they already are. Characters in play have reasonable wealth, but the most sought-after equipment is difficult to create and requires a great deal of coordination between PCs. Trade skills provide a nice supplement, but making something completely from scratch takes a lot of time and effort. I'll be honest with you; this is exactly where I want the system to be. Any more can pose a significant detriment to the game's economy in the long term.

As always, thanks for your thoughts guys. As I promised at the powwow, I won't tell you "no" without a good reason, and hopefully you feel that way after reading this. Believe me when I say that the short-term and long-term health of the game is what drives my decisions, and that your feedback is always appreciated even if it doesn't result in the change you suggest.

Astrum

Adventurer (11 Events)

You can run, but you'll only die tired.

Submitted by Astrum on Sat, 2012-03-03 12:51

Your argument is a good one. What really got my attention is the ability to spend downtime in a different way. I still feel that it isn't quite productive enough and agree that the most wealth should definately be obtained through adventuring, however. I maintain that adventuring recieved a HUGE buff in numbers (several TIMES more) and that trade skills did not. As it is, I will accept that with the introduction of new downtime activities and the likes, it will balance itself out. I'll give it another year I suppose, but beware, I might be back :p

Thad

Administrator

Veteran (28 Events)

"Life is an adventure. Never stop questing."

Submitted by Thad on Sat, 2012-03-03 12:51

Crap, now I have to invent new uses for downtime or else I'll be lynched by the mage's guild. I should be more careful about what I use as a talking point. :P

Honestly, the exploration, experimentation, and lordship systems are only cursory ideas in my notes at the moment. A year is probably the right timeframe, since I've got the scenario module, the exit survey system, the cabin defense system, a revamped lore system, and high-level content (paths, most likely) to work on over the next six months. I'll keep it in mind that you're interested in expanded downtime options, though.

You are here

Trade Skill Yield Formula Revised