Here is something we have yet to discuss. Right now we have burst, spray, and vicinity. Are these the ones we are keeping? I heard that vicinity may or maynot go away. If it does will there be something to take its place?
How about to replace named we use just a point and deliver? However this would be an extreemly powerful delivery method. You figure retorts are that way, but you have to take the damage or effect before you can use it, and they are very high intensity in the old system. Only way I would see that as fair is to make that delivery method high lvl. Other then that I really can't think of a fair replacement for named effects. As far as the AOE's go, I like the current ones and I am satisfied we have enough crowd control capability with them that we really don't need any others.
Say that when you miss with sprays as much as I do. :P
In all seriousness, though, I agree. Our current lineup of AOEs is small but solid. I care more that the mechanics work well than we have a large variety of them.
I've mulled over the success of Retorts versus the failure of Named effects for awhile now. The fundamental differences are in distance and engagement. With a Retort, you're paying attention to me before I call it, and you're close enough to me to hear it. With a Named effect, your attention may be focused elsewhere or you may be far off.
The trick here will be to determine when another character's attention is focused on you and when they're close enough to get the call. If we meet those two requirements, any mechanic we come up with should be at least as good as Retort. Any ideas?
Before I even read you post Thad, I was thinking about the Angori Saavage that locks on to a foe and lets out a deafening roar (Fear). this would be like what your talking about. I can think of a few instances where a Bard or Wizard would use such a mechanic as well. What to call it?
"Targeted"
'Directed"
What ever you call it, I agree with Tom. It should be high level.
I agree with Thad as well, we have a good repitoir of AOE, and no point of having it just to have it.
The only way I can come up with to fix a Named effect is to make it where they have to be in a Burst or Spray Radius. I still think Named is a bit overpowered, and it takes away from the combat some. I think half of it is confusing because when it's called on a monster, the person calling it just uses the monster's real name (i.e Heather: Daze). None of us are used to going by our real names in Orn, and with 50 people, character names are almost out of the question for memorization. I'd like to see Named go away in it's entirity.
On the otherhand, I get what Ashley is saying. I could go either way on it. I need more discussion to flesh out which side of the fence I'm on here.
The problem here is that, if the effect is only at very close range, why wouldn't I just use a packet? Sure, it can be dodged, but the closer you get, the more likely I'd hit, and a normal packet is low rating.
Having some sort of a point-and-call mechanic would work better if the person who received it didn't have to be identified by name. I agree that it would work well for social mechanics like the angora intimidation or bard effects; I've been looking for a replacement for packets there for awhile.
So I'd say there's a need. And I have a feeling we can make it work. We just have to define how the target is clearly identified for all participants involved.
BAH! You boys and your silly points. I guess there is a need. Is there a way to do it with a light source? Like Laser Tag? And still call the name and effect? That does no good during the day however.
If we have a plot person on the outside listening specifically for named and vicinity actions, the could call it as well as the PC, like in my nexus room. Such as "Thalenir Named Soothe by Gaius" for example. I'm trying to find a way around having to call a hold for it to be heard when there's 50 people on a field. That or give it a radius where i can't be called if you can not see the person in your line of sight. I have to think. These aren't working for me.
Anything that requires a hold violates game flow and is a non-starter. Same goes for anything that requires plot intervention or any sort of on-the-spot arbitration. We're looking for some combination of situations and calls that clearly define a single person nearby taking an effect. Obviously, there's a reason named effects should have worked well for this, but unfortunately they were clumsy and impossible to marshal.
Heather mentioned something about line of sight that gave me an idea. We could use Gaze as a method, where you point and call at another participant within, say, packet range who is clearly meeting your gaze. The fact that you're looking at one another establishes the necessary attention, and the fact that you point and say, for instance, "Gaze Freeze" indicates who takes it without needing to resort to name-calling. And we could have medusas. :)
Just a thought. I'm not convinced it would work very well, but it's a start. (THS 3)
I LOVE IT THAD! PLEASE THS10 THE GAZE ACTION!!! I think it's very workable that way. And Medusa is a BAD ASS! I think it's a great mechanic, it sort of sticks with the fear thing, and it does invoke that the other person on the receiving end has to be paying attention. I really like this idea.
My thoughts, so far.
Spray: Solid. Keeps.
Burst: It's mechanics are solid, but they frustrate me. I don't have bursts as a character but I get them when I monster. I have always felt that burst is underpowered by a bit. When ever I try to use a burst, it seems that no matter what I try to do no one is ever affected because they are always just out of my reach. And if one person does happen to run in, it's pointless to use it on just them. And then the fact that it's based on the length of your weapon also frustrates me. It gives others an unfair advantage. I've thought hard several days on how to improve on it and the only two things I can think of basing it off of paces or extending it by a 3 paces outside the end of the weapons reach. The latter is easier to follow for players while ingame and easier to marshall. The first wouldn't work because of the question, whose paces? Anyways, I know that it's doubtful burst will change at all, but I needed to throw my thoughts out there.
Vincinity: I like it, but I agree with everyone on what has been said so far other than removing it. Though, I think that there should be a required repeat on the part of all players. That will insure that it is heard. Though, I know that idea isn't really popular.
Named: Same as everyone else. I really love the Gaze replacement though.
Retorts: Solid. Keeps.
And that's about it, really.
I can see where putting riposte and retort in the same category would make sense, but the two mechanics are different. With retort you have to take the damage while a riposte can be taken on a shield and still be called. The retort is more useful in that it hits automatically from ranged attacks as well, while the riposte doesnt have to be taken, but you must be within melee range. The effects are similar, but different enough that I think they should both stay. my compromise here would be to allow mages the retort action, while warriors use riposte actions. My thinking is that named effects are garbage, and that retorts work well, so it could be renamed and be used to replace the broken named mechanic, while still allowing melee fighters to have a similar effect but force them to be in the middle of the fight where they should be. Just a thought, and I would like some feedback to see what others are thinking here. Of course the downside is that mages have to take damage to use the action, and they don't have many points to spare in combat.
I completely get what your saying about riposte vs retort Mark.
I totaly missed that one.
I don't think there is any reason to rename retort.There should be no confusion on the battlefield.
As an attacker if you take either you take damage.
Only the person calling it will have to know if they take the initial damage.
Yes Retort for ranged attacks & Reposte fro melee.
Good catch Mark.
Burst and Spray are solid and definitely staying. I plan to combine Retort and Riposte into one for simplicity, but those are staying as well. Vicinity is strictly the best solution we have at the moment for doing what it does; it'll be staying, but I'd like to find a better way of doing it.
Battlefield and one-mile radius will be going away, since they were never used in the first place. Named effects will be going away, although I'd like to consider alternatives since Retorts prove that "point-and-call" effects are not unworkable.
Beyond that, I'm open to ideas on new delivery mechanics.