I have always been on board with the idea that you need not wear real armor to get points for it, and that if it looks real, you should get those points (I even posted to this before ever attending a game!) I will say as to the summer armor rules from the past, I am not a fan. It is not that I am a lazy armor wearer who wants to get over on non-armor wearers, but as a game medic I have real problems with people wearing it when it is 100 degrees outside. Summer armor rules should be in effect to encourage safe play, and the current ones do not. Taking off 60 points of armor (breastplate 50 material 10) and gaining 5 extra points of health (1 rank of fortitude) is not worth it to take off the armor. Those numbers are assuming that the "you lose shield use" rule is still in effect, which should completely not be the case, but I digress.
The deciding factor to this is that when it is hot, the tactics we are fostering in this rules change will completely change. Many of the new changes are to defining classes. A warrior will fight in the front, do middling damage, and get armor and shield usage on the cheap, unless it is hot, at which time he loses his ability to stand up to monsters and make a shield wall, and possibly lose the shield as well. This has to change as we go forward, or people will simply not want to play a fighter at all So my question is, what will be the case if we are to deem it too hot or unsafe to wear armor?
The current plan for shield use is to make it a combat style (i.e., Weapon and Shield) or have its own dedicated skill. Either way, it won't be tied to armor use any more.
Yes, tactics will change in the summer. Fighters may don lighter armor or choose to go with no armor at all. As far as the summer armor rule itself, the current ruling will stand with the exception of shields; fighters will be able to swap out armor use for Fortitude or its equivalent.
Sorry, Mark; my opinion of armor balance really hasn't changed. With the separation of shields from armor use and the clarification that fake armor is perfectly acceptable (which has been the case for a year now, but apparently I'm often misquoted), I'm even more solidly behind the rule as it stands. (THS 10)
Ok. Don't Thad-tagline me here. I'm just asking for clarification because I only hear Mark's argument, and I don't fully know what the summer armor rules actually are. Will you explain this to me? LOL! Is there where they can take off the breastplate that's normally 50 points and trade it in for an extra 5 health points? How will this equivilate in the new system I guess is what I'm asking, based on what armor point values and whatnot will become.
Yes, Heather; the summer armor rule states that an armor wearer may exchange their skill in armor use for extra health during hot summer months. The conversion will be on par with what it was before; you'll probably get a third to a quarter the same bonus health as you would wearing the armor.
Thad, I know I am beating a dead horse here, but I really think the 1/4 armor value for summer armor rules is a bit off balance. Basically in the summer months it makes the warrior worthless at his task of standing there to take damage, and often people will don their armor when they really shouldn't. I understand what you are trying to do here, but I believe allowing 1/2 armor value for summer rules would be more fair to the warriors. So if someone has Armored combat 15 then during summer armor rules they get a straight 7 armor. I also would have to say set a certain condition where these rules apply according to the medic's discresion.
Tom, I'm trying to avoid a tagline here, haha. Mark agrees with you on the at least half part for th exact same reason. He is worried that it makes you guys buying all the armor points it costs to wear what you have is pointless, since summer armor rules typically apply about 3 events, which is hallf the season.
Thad, I am with Tom on the dead horse. But I do feel it's important to say it IS safety concern and I feel that you will have PC's trying to have brass balls about it and wear it anyway. Claire almost dropped at one of the events ( and I mean almost passed out) while the rules were in effect. She felt it wasn't worth it to take the armor off. Mark (as the medic) made her take it off and go out of play to get water. I think we'll only see more of this if we don't make it worth it for them to even consider taking it off. I'd also like to add this point. These guys and glas are spending QUITE a bit of money to wear the armor they spend points on. I strongly feel that they should get better credit for having it, even though they may have to take it off for safety concerns. I've heard you say that mages wear armor and do ok. I agree there, but my point is mages fight like I do. We get behind warriors or completely out of range, attack, and then move. We aren't running around NEAR as much as these guys in the warrior class are. I just really think we should make it worth it. If Scott was playing Doran full time, look at how much armor he loses on his health by taking all that off as a full set. My other argument is they are typically spending items to get enchantments on them and they lose these as well. Would a compromise be allowed as this: If they take the armor off, they can still keep whatever enchantment is on that piece of armor?
That being said, please don't tagline me and hate my face!!!
I get the tagline, and I will suck it up, but heather had a good question with enchants.If I have a gaurd or retort or other enchant on a piece of armor and take off the armor will I still be able to use those actions or count the gaurd in my health total? Apply this same thought to material points as well. If you are a warrior and have half of your wealth as a character put into your armor (Which is what a warrior does lol) then not having a benefit from it leaves a sour tate in your warrior's mouth lol. This is a new question that could go somewhere else and wasnt part of the first discussion.
Another clarification I would like to know is how much health a rank of fortitude will give you? I realise that it is more of a char design question, but it directly relates to this discussion. I do not want to argue why or how many points, I just want to know so that I can plan accordingly for the summer lol.
Yes, if you take off your armor, you do not get the benefits of it, including enchantments and special material properties. Yes, I'm fine with that. There are ways around it if you're worried about it, such as putting the enchantment on a lighter piece of armor you can wear all the time. And if people are being unsafe and wearing armor anyway, I don't mind mandating that they must take it off as you did with Claire.
I am now closing this thread to further comments. It has been ruled on, guys. I'd like to move on.
I am a fan of Boffer Armor for a couple of reasons.
1) There are safety reasons.
2) This is a fantasy game. A player should not be required to bear the weight of full plate armor in combat so that his Fantasy character can benefit from it.
I do think it is worth having rules that say that it should look reasonably authentic because that is about immersion.