I was brainstorming today on a way to make druids a little better. While viewing all of the characters in the Shards of Orn, I saw that AmandaT had made a shape shifted druid cat character.
It got me to thinking. What if all druids got to make a form that they shape shifted into and it leveled with them. This second character would be them set at 3/4 of the druid's current level. They could make the animal form and control every aspect of the animal, just like they control their character.
I offer this in place of a templated "monster". In the field test they were forced to shape shift into a dog we had approved. Thus they were misrepresented. We did need to move the restriction of the druids animal form from one half the druid's level to 3/4. This change has or will soon be done.
Tell me you thoughts. We want to see druids in the game. And fixing them will help a lot.
Well as of right now beasts, with very few exceptions are savages. So if the druid had a second character sheet for their beast form, it would be a savage of the appropriate level. Which leads to another important point. Can the animal form multi class?
But to answer your question: "Will the skill costs for unarmed combat, weapon spec (claws), brawn, and other skills be comparable (not better than or equal to) to warriors to make the druid viable?", as of right now the answer is yes. They would act as savages all of which have affinity for all of those skills.
For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Are looking at 3/4 for total skill points or simply 3/4 of level?
Does the beast savage need to learn unarmed combat and two weapon fighting first?
If so, that would cost him 10 of his starting 15 skill points (assuming 3/4 skill points) leaving him a mere 5 points to spend on brawn. This would net our druid calling 3's with 16 body.
That's a tough starting point for our intrepid druid.
I'm kinda thinking that a separate skill list and cost for beast shapes would be best. Maybe something along the lines of Unarmed Combat (4), Two Weapon Fighting (3), Weapon Spec (claws)(5), Brawn (5), Fortitude (3). Hit points should be dependent on the class of the beast (savages at first and allowing multi-class into other classes such as rogue latter).
Remembering that our beast form will always be 3/4 of a warrior, our druid would still be viable in combat without overshadowing other warrior types
Thinking on what you were talking about multi-classing, I would be for it. But the beast form would primarily be savage in nature, so I would say that a majority of the beast's level be in savage with the remainder split between warrior and rogue. The rogue and warrior actions should, of course, be ones that the beast could actually perform.
Talking with Jessi, a complement of special actions based on the totem animal could be appropriate as well; webs for spiders, poison sting for scorpions, etc. And making Keen Senses available while in beast form would be cool as well.
Geesh, I'm stuck on druids right now.
1. Should there be only one action for druid's shapechange now? Rather than the four or five currently listed? That would make specialty action: shapechange easier to buy rather and dealing with the multiple actions we have now.
2. Would it be feasible for the beast form to take armored combat as a skill to reflect the tougher hide of the animal?
I hope that this is all for now, but probably not.
grin
I appreciate the discussion, as always, but druids will remain as they are for now. Here is my reasoning:
- As a design principle, I don't like special cases, and giving druids two personally-customizable characters is a big special case.
- While I trust some people to make logical choices for their beast's skills, I can't trust everyone to do so. Hence the need for the additional scrutiny that the action system provides. Otherwise, we might see dire bears who are expert blacksmiths or some such nonsense.
- Sheer pragmatism. I don't have the time it would take to provide this functionality right now, at least not in a smart way. Other systems take clear priority.
For the time being, then, how druids work is not going to fundamentally change as suggested here. I may reconsider later when things get a little less hectic.
That's not to say I'm not open to ideas within the current framework, of course. I like the idea of a skill that allows a druid character to benefit from armor while shapeshifted, for example, and alternate forms are always allowed with oversight.
Other miscellaneous answers:
- Beasts have affinities for many combat skills.
- Yes, animal forms can be multi-class. At least one character plans to make a more roguish shapeshift progression, which I'm fine with.
- The druid's animal form is another character with its own actions. For the most part, these actions are limited to encounter frequency only, but they're in line with other characters of the same level.
- I know I keep coming back to this point, but monsters are just characters. Beasts do have to buy Unarmed Combat and Two-Weapon Fighting, just like any other character. Yes, this does nerf the animal form for starting druids. This is an intentional balancing factor.
- For simplicity's sake, I'll be revising health to stay the same regardless of form. I'll probably grant druids a weak affinity for Fortitude as a result.
- Animal forms will have full access to appropriate racial abilities, which could possibly include restricted abilities like poisons, webbing, etc. Believe it or not, this is a benefit of the additional scrutiny, since things like that wouldn't be available to players building their own beasts. ;)
I'll be returning to my programming now. I'll try to weigh back in on the conversation later this week if you guys need more rulings.
"You are technically correct. The best kind of correct!"
- Bureaucrat 1.0, Futurama
OK, then can we chose the 'form' of our beast but keep the same stats. If I want a predatory cat rather than a wolf, that would be fine, yes?
I love that health would stay the same in each form, much easier to keep up with and handle. Would you be changing the stats for druid beasts to reflect this? Losing fortify on the current beast stat blocks and giving an extra rank in brawn would make these guys so much more playable.
As everyone is aware, the game is this weekend. That being said, Thad is working on other functionality for the web site, namely the down time action system. So that players can learn new actions between events and practice trade skills for gold. With this monumental patch attempting to be finished before the first event, adding major changes to the druid class has proven to be too problematic.
We have made some changes to the class with the addition of the spell blast skill and the 25% level increase to the shape shifted form. We will allow those changes to set in for this event and see what further changes are needed. That being said, we do plan to make amendments on the suggested fixes for the class.
It sounds to me that players interested in the druid class are just seeking more flavor. I will work on this more but for now just consider the wolf beasts given to be any beast that one can think of to fit the template, (ex. Hyena, Lion, Bird, Raptor, etc.). In the near future we will address the classes of different beasts. They may still be templated for approval purposes but they will contain special racial abilities like the spider?s webs, the snake?s poisons, etc.
We ask for patience in this process however as there are only a limited number of players interested in playing this single class. Not to say that any one player is worth more or less than another one, mind you. We need to tackle other more game encompassing issues at this time.
We appreciate your feed back and enthusiasm. Your input is what will make this game the greatest game ever played. Keep the ideas coming. We will use all of them that we can, that aren?t game breaking. We seek fairness and balance for all the classes and abilities. The magic website can do it!
For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Drum roll please! We are proud to announce some new trial forms for your approval. I have only developed the lowest level of druid forms for this event only. I hope that this helps with the issues present in this topic. At the very least it's a start.
For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I really like the idea of the druid, I want to see them as well. Will the skill costs for unarmed combat, weapon spec (claws), brawn, and other skills be comparable (not better than or equal to) to warriors to make the druid viable?
I love the idea of a separate character sheet for the druid's animal form. Would they have their own class actions or would they be pure bip machines? They, of course, shouldn't be as fighty as warriors, savages or monks; but should still be playable.
And the PC should be able to control the leveling of his shapeshifted totem animal on the character creation page as well.