Ok, so... Health.
This is how I think health should work. Everyone get a base amount. Let's use 5. Then every level you take in a class, you get a set amount more. (I cant remember the names of the base classes so just hang with me on this part)
Fighter classes: 5
Healer and Rouge classes: 3
Mage classes: 1 (maybe 2)
I think it should go like this, regardless of base amount because of how damage is being done. From what I have heard, we will be calling 1's and 2's, which I agree with. If we keep brutality, initiative, and weapon specialization, and if racial weapon specialization comes into play (heard that from Nick) then a level one fighter could deal off 6 damage max. I figure if we are trying to keep people on the same level matched then this is the best bet. Two level one fighters with no armor would have 10 health each. They would require two hits each, without special actions, to drop one another.
Now a level two fighter would be able to do about 9 damage max and would have 15 health. He would have to hit the level one twice as well, keeping the chances of staying alive more for the level one, but the difficulty for victory for the level one also increases. This makes it so the higher levels are only a bit stronger than the immediate lower levels.
Also, keep in mind that of what initiative does. I used it in all of the numbers above to show max damage. Also keep in mind that not every fighter will have all of those skills or even have then at max for their level.
Aaaaaand... go!
I'm down with giving a little more health at first level, particularly since a main concern among new folks is frequent death by attacks that drop them immediately. However, a 1st-level character with 10 health in the new system would be analogous to a 2nd-level character with 50 health in the current system, which is far too high. A savage specced with Fortitude would have 32, or 6 in new numbers. Let's split the difference and say that a character can start with 7 or 8 health at the absolute most.
I do agree that fighters should get the most by default, rogues and theurges get a middling amount, and mages get the least. The question of how much they get and how rapidly will be a matter more for the character design group, but we can go forward assuming fighters are beefy, mages are squishy, and everyone else is in between.
As for calling damage, pretty much everyone will start out calling 1's. Ignore the current skill system; extra base damage will only be available every fifth level if it's available at all. So we're looking at 1's at 1st through 4th, 2's at 5th through 9, 3's at 10th through 14th, etc., with a bit more on the high end because of Hone and Strength effects.
Action-based bonus damage will be a bit trickier. I plan on mages and rogues getting a middling damage progression, fighters getting a low damage progression, and theurges getting no damage. Paths will modify these a bit; assassins and sorcerers, for example, will be able to call high damage, druids and shamans will get weak damage in addition to their healing, etc.
So, let's assume we've got a 1st-level party. The fighter standing up front has 7 or 8 health and might call 2's with actions. The rogue next to him has 5 or 6 health and calls 3's, but faces some sort of combat restriction (light weapons, sneak attacks, etc.). The theurge on the other side has 5 or 6 health but heals instead of calling damage. And the mage in the back has 3 or 4 health and calls 3's with packets.
Your high damage classes need the least. Rogue and sorcerrer need 3 or 4 at the most. If they are to be the true glass cannons that the players want.
I feel that dedicated healers and shield bearers need 8 to start and the other classes that don't fall into these extreems need an inbetween ammount like 6.
Mages are the only true glass cannons in this setup. Large, direct damage at range, but little in the way of defense. Rogues are skirmishers, with better damage than fighters. Their defense is lower, but not so low as mages. They pay for this with combat restrictions that put them at a disadvantage in a straight fight. Right now, I'm thinking small weapons.
So I have three ideas.
One, base health of 2 for everyone. Then mages 1/lvl, rouges 2/lvl, healers 3/lvl and fighters 4/lvl. That give lvl 1's 3, 4, 5, and 6 health, respectively. I say this because we haven't been considering what armor will do for everyone, which I have some ideas to post for later. Health like this, with almost any armor idea, will keep this simple and balanced.
Two, we can just icksna the base health and do: mages 1/lvl, rouges 2/lvl, healers 3/lvl and fighters 4/lvl
Or three, we can make it so you only gain health at every odd lvl with the base, to keep everything low.
lvl
Idea one
Idea two
Idea three
lvl 1
M: 3 R: 4 H: 5 F: 6
M: 1 R: 2 H: 3 F: 4
M: 3 R: 4 H: 5 F: 6
lvl 2
M: 4 R: 6 H: 8 F: 10
M: 2 R: 4 H: 6 F: 8
M: 3 R: 4 H: 5 F: 6
lvl 3
M: 5 R: 8 H: 11 F: 14
M: 3 R: 6 H: 9 F: 12
M: 4 R: 6 H: 8 F: 10
lvl 4
M: 6 R: 10 H: 14 F: 18
M: 4 R: 8 H: 12 F: 16
M: 4 R: 6 H: 8 F: 10
lvl 5
M: 7 R: 12 H: 17 F: 22
M: 5 R: 10 H: 15 F: 20
M: 5 R: 8 H: 11 F: 14
Though with what it sounds like you are trying to achieve, I think that the third option is best. Low numbers, easy to subtract, easy system to learn and remember.
K reading through what you have here on health its easy to see what we are looking for. Mages having the least and warriors the most. I purpose the simplist of methods. A set amount for each class gained each lvl with no base.
My suggestion would be Mages get 2 a lvl, which makes them a one shot kill at lower lvls. (which is what they should be) That maxes their health at 40 at 20th lvl. I would also suggest that they donnot have access to the fortitude or armored combat skills at all. If they want these they must take a class with it.
Rogues and Thuerges I would suggest getting 4 a lvl, which makes them able to take a hit or two, but would quickly send them running to the warrior for defence. (as it should be) They also should be able to have access to the fortitude skill, however their armor should cap at roughly half that of the warrior. If you want to be a battle thuerge, then you better take some warrior lvls to access the higher armor. So that would max rogues/thuerges at 80 base at 20th lvl.
Warriors obviously should have the most with access to both the fortitude skill and full armor. I purpose warriors getting 6 a lvl, which makes them the heartiest, yet still a 4-6 shot kill at lower lvls. Couple the health, with the armor, and the fort, warriors should be the bastion which the mages stand behind. This maxes their health at 120 at 20th lvl
Now I do know these numbers are not quite the 1/5th fraction we are looking for, however doing the 1/5th thing will make the difference in health at lower lvls either nonexistint or fractional. For instance a 2nd lvl mage in the old system would start with 16 health and a 2nd lvl warrior 22. You divide them by 5 the difference is only 1 health, not a big enough difference IMHO. Now this is only useing base health, but I do believe the base should be reflective of what the class is before any skills are taken.
Again, advancement of health will be up to the Character Design group, since a combination of skills, class, and level will play a part in the calculation. It's beyond the scope of this discussion group.
The amount folks start with will probably be high, but the amount gained per level will probably be a lot less. Mages gaining 2 health per level, for example, would be 10 in the current system, which is way too high. I doubt fighters will even get that much.
Again, advancement of health will be up to the Character Design group, since a combination of skills, class, and level will play a part in the calculation. It's beyond the scope of this discussion group.
The amount folks start with will probably be high, but the amount gained per level will probably be a lot less. Mages gaining 2 health per level, for example, would be 10 in the current system, which is way too high. I doubt fighters will even get that much.
I agree there should be a base HP amount everyone starts with to represent the childhood & adolescent years. I agree that the number of HP you get per level should be tied to the class you took that level. I feel that access to skills that boost HP should be restricted to the class you took that level as well.
Fighter Toughest
Cleric
Rogue
Mage Weakest
To make a Battle Cleric, or Battle Mage you will pay the price of taking levels in other classes.
I agree with Ashley on the Battle Cleric idea. I played a disciple for several events, and the biggest reason I changed classes was (well besides Ranger coming out) was that I felt I couldn't defend myself. I dropped a good 4-6 times in mods. Maybe give healing classes a light weapon restriction, but a higer tox option than combat, as herbalism is a major part of playing a healer.
I agree with the starting base amount and then progressively less additions as you go in lvl. But there again, the healer thing is more a dmage topic than health.
I think we've reached all the consensus on health that this group needs to for now. Fighters are beefy, mages are squishy, and everyone else is in between. The most a starting character can hope to have is 7 or 8 health with all classes, skills, and other traits considered. And armor use will be somewhat class-restricted, such that fighters have the greatest access, theurges have less, rogues have even less, and mages have none without multiclassing. The rest is clearly within the scope of the character design group.
I love the simplification.
With the combat will we be dropping characters like crazy?
If 2 hits drops you it will be dam scary.
People will have to change their style. Which might not be bad.
I feel that dropping an equal level player in 1-2 hits is a little over the top.
I think if the Health is changed that drastically the skill effects will have to as well.
If a 3rd level Fighter is at max HP with 30, a Rogue/Disciple with max HP at 20, and a Mage at max HP with 10. The fighter should be able to 1-2 hit drop the Rogue/Disciple with a skill/at will action or a Mage with a standard attack.
I guess there needs to be coordination with our Combat effects – Weapon Damage discussion.